tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6291499137127413508.post62317068050731660..comments2024-03-29T00:38:40.895+00:00Comments on IrishBeerHistory: Brewing History: Irish Red Ale Part II - All in the Malt?Liamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15232909461477844968noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6291499137127413508.post-11915689562550138682023-01-28T17:20:43.367+00:002023-01-28T17:20:43.367+00:00As referenced here? So, generic 'Irish Red Ale...As referenced here? So, generic 'Irish Red Ales' at this point have less flavour/body/etc. than any bitter ales I've tried ...Liamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15232909461477844968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6291499137127413508.post-66543439146797059182023-01-28T10:41:39.221+00:002023-01-28T10:41:39.221+00:00How are they bland?How are they bland?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6291499137127413508.post-61239906565236707462022-08-28T15:08:25.856+01:002022-08-28T15:08:25.856+01:00Hi Dave,
I am also a novice brewer - and writer/r...Hi Dave,<br /><br />I am also a novice brewer - and writer/researcher - by the way!<br /><br />As you will have read I have some major issues with the term 'Historic Irish Red Ale' but you are right in saying that recipes from the 18th or 19th century are rather scarce to the point of unfindable, although some from the late 19th century are probably hanging around - somewhere.<br /><br />I will be attempting an 19th century Irish ale myself shortly and in the absence of the amber malt I mention in this post I think I will be using half heritage pale malt and half modern amber/brown malt of the darkest colour I can find as a base malt unless I can find a maltster that will recreate the original for me! The candied malt was patented so I need to dig into what it actually was but, yes, it may have been like a dark crystal...?<br /><br />I'm unsure of the actual hopping rates but Irish brewers were certainly using English, Flemish, Bavarian and American hops in the 19th century, and at quite high rates in their porters so I would think they would think that ales would be highly hopped too - especially for those to be kept, and less so for those to be drank quickly. (Although hops were possibly less potent due to varieties, storage, etc.) I would certainly think they were much more highly hopped than modern Irish Red Ales, which have no real history at all in relative terms. They hops were used for bitterness/storage too, so I doubt there was much aroma - keep that in mind when selecting hop varieties and boil times.<br /><br />Long mash times and boils were very common too, so factor that in too.<br /><br />I'm not sure if any of that is really very helpful to you, but just remember that apart from - possibly - the coincidental colour, that a 19th Irish amber ale isn't related to the modern red style.<br /><br />I'm assuming you are reading and follow Ron Pattinson? His blog and books are a great resource.<br /><br />LiamLiamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15232909461477844968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6291499137127413508.post-91148007719764797382022-08-28T02:59:28.872+01:002022-08-28T02:59:28.872+01:00Hi Liam,
Thanks for this brilliantly helpful post ...Hi Liam,<br />Thanks for this brilliantly helpful post - I'm a novice brewer (so please forgive any ignorance) just starting a personal mission to replicate a historic Irish red ale - or, rather, amber...or ruby - in the 18th or 19th century style. With no early recipes extant (or are there?), is it reasonable guesswork, do you think, to try a base of pale malt with a bit of brown and/or a dark crystal? ("Candied" sounds like a crystal malt, at least to my inexperience?) I've read, too, that hop additions were lightened for saving costs after a 1733 import ban, so if true, perhaps that is the origin of the modern style having no hop aroma.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6291499137127413508.post-14899005698141588072022-08-16T16:06:44.638+01:002022-08-16T16:06:44.638+01:00If you mean what we now call 'Irish Red Ales&#...If you mean what we now call 'Irish Red Ales' then I don't think so, as per the next post in the series I think it was something different? The amber ales in this post might be closer - as I mention - but I think the modern Irish red ale is unique enough and is more like a bland bitter perhaps? Even though I have looked and and mentioned comparisons myself it's quite a difficult thing to compare styles, as it depends on the criteria you use. After all, there are huge overlaps in many beer types ...Liamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15232909461477844968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6291499137127413508.post-39993302198688719602022-08-16T15:30:13.957+01:002022-08-16T15:30:13.957+01:00Is it possible what we call an Irish Red Ale or Re...Is it possible what we call an Irish Red Ale or Red Ale is just an Irish brewed mild ale. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6291499137127413508.post-47582159508008528922021-09-22T17:48:55.945+01:002021-09-22T17:48:55.945+01:00Hi Martyn,
My version of the book is annotated by...Hi Martyn,<br /><br />My version of the book is annotated by the author and they have changed the date printed to 1879 but I think that is just when it was added to by the author, Guinness themselves have PDF that claims that those steamers started around 1873 - I must investigate further! I also need to do a better read of it but I have brewed an XX stout - very roughly - from the recipes ...<br /><br />I'm still of the opinion that there were unique, Irish amber ales that were reddish so that an Irish Red Ale did exist then, even if not the modern iteration, but I appreciate and understand your point. It's a really tricky area to talk about and I'm not sure if there are right or wrongs to a lot of it, but more to come soon. I just wish that Ireland had more brewing records...<br /><br />Thanks for all that!<br />Liam<br />Liamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15232909461477844968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6291499137127413508.post-45535896378035191102021-09-22T09:57:43.729+01:002021-09-22T09:57:43.729+01:00By coincidence I just acquired a pdf copy myself ...By coincidence I just acquired a pdf copy myself of that notebook you mention by the anonymous journeyman/consulting brewer which mentions the "pale" malt that would give a deep red wort - there is a copy in the archives of A Well Known Large Irish Brewery, but I was told by the person who gave it to me that I couldn't reveal where it came from. I see you date it from 1872 - however, as Stan Corran, the late archivist at G**nn*ss, pointed out, the book cannot be that early, as it mentions the "little steamers" that the brewery used to take casks from the wharf to the ships further down the Liffey, and they did not start until some time after that date - the early 1880s, I believe. I would agree, though, that the mention of that "dark" pale malt is significant, because it suggests that the easiest "pale" malt to find in Ireland in the late 19thC, at least, would indeed give you a reddish ale if used on its own.<br /><br />I wouldn't tie in any mentions of amber ale to "Irish red ale", however, simply because amber ale is so frequently mentioned in Britain down the centuries, and appears to be a common description - there are four mentions of "amber beer" in the Vade Mecum for Malt Worms from the late 1710s, for example.<br /><br />Finally, "red" mentioned as something apparently undesirable is probably the infection brewers also called "foxing", because the worts turned a reddish colour. Martyn Cornellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16843357962176591317noreply@blogger.com